Hindi exactly "binalik" or "ni-require" na lahat ng tao ay magsimba sa Latin. Ganito yung story ng Summorum...
Nung ni-revise yung mass bunga noong Second Vatican Council (Vatican II)---in 1969 to be precise---naglabas din ng bagong translation ng misa. To be more precise about it: iniklian yung liturgy ng mass from the three hour version to something that fits into an hour. Let's call the "original" version the Tridentine Mass, and the "new" version the "1969 Mass".
So...yung 1969 Mass--which was still in Latin---ang siyang ginamit at patuloy na ginagamit ngayon. (In fact, pag nagsimba ka sa Vatican, Latin pa rin ang ginagamit nilang wika sa misa, so hindi naman talaga "nawala" ang Latin sa pagmimisa. Ang nagbago lang noong 1969 ay nagkaroon ng mga pagpapayag mula sa Vatican na magkaroon ng misa sa bawat kanya-kanyang wika sa buong mundo...sa Ingles, Espanol, Hapones, maging Tagalog at Cebuano (to name a few). Ang kundisyon lang ay dapat nakabatay ito sa orihinal na teksto ng misa sa Latin---specifically, the 1969 Mass.
Dahil mabilis na in-adopt ng iba-ibang bansa ang pagmimisa sa kanya-kanyang wika, nabawasan ang paggamit ng Latin, at gayundin ng Tridentine Mass. Sa mahabang panahon---at least, in this generation---nagkaroon ng impression na hindi na ginagamit ang Latin, at hindi na rin nauso ang Tridentine Mass.
Obviously, may mga taong napamahal sa Tridentine Mass at hindi nakuntento na napalitan ang kanilang minamahal na bersyon ng misa. Yung iba sa kanila ay itinuring pang "tiwalag" sa simbahan (a very unfortunate incident, I think, given yung intentions nung mga taong involved). Sa matagal na panahon, nag-lobby sila sa Vatican upang muling maibalik ang Tridentine Mass---or at least, pahintulutang muli ang pagmimisa gamit ang bersyong ito. Para maliwanagan ang lahat ng mga tao, noong 2005 (ata?
) ay inilabas ni Pope Benedict XVI ang kasulatan na Summorum Pontificum upang linawin ang ilang mga bagay ukol sa isyung ito, namely:
* hindi naman talaga in-"abolish" ng Vatican II ang Tridentine Mass;
* because of this, pupwedeng magmisa ang mga tao gamit ang Tridentine Mass given certain conditions outlined in Summorum. Among others: kelangang nasa Latin pa rin ang Tridentine Mass (na siya naman ding gusto ng mga proponents nito
);
* in fact, ine-encourage ang mga tao na subukang magmisa sa Tridentine Mass. Note: the word is "encouraged". Hindi ibig sabihin nito ay "mandatory" ito sa lahat ng mga simbahan sa buong mundo;
* Hindi din naman ibig sabihin nito ay ina-"abolish" naman ang 1969 Mass. Sa katunayan, sa mata ng Vatican, pareho silang valid forms of the same Mass...they are the same Mass, with two different "uses".
So in short...pinapayagan ang pagmimisa sa Latin, pero hindi ito nire-require
Pero kung gusto naman ninyong subukan na makapagmisa kayo in Latin, bakit hindi?
Regarding the application of this directive in the Philippines...sobrang masalimuot ang interpretation ng Archdiocese of Manila tungkol dito, I think. Mismong mga taga-Vatican ay hindi nasiyahan sa ikinilos ng Manila Cathedral sa pagmimisa sa Tridentine Mass. I'll let you search my previous posts for the complete answer, para hindi humaba ng sobra-sobra ang post na ito
That's just the first part of the story. Please read on for the second part....
Nung ni-revise yung mass bunga noong Second Vatican Council (Vatican II)---in 1969 to be precise---naglabas din ng bagong translation ng misa. To be more precise about it: iniklian yung liturgy ng mass from the three hour version to something that fits into an hour. Let's call the "original" version the Tridentine Mass, and the "new" version the "1969 Mass".
So...yung 1969 Mass--which was still in Latin---ang siyang ginamit at patuloy na ginagamit ngayon. (In fact, pag nagsimba ka sa Vatican, Latin pa rin ang ginagamit nilang wika sa misa, so hindi naman talaga "nawala" ang Latin sa pagmimisa. Ang nagbago lang noong 1969 ay nagkaroon ng mga pagpapayag mula sa Vatican na magkaroon ng misa sa bawat kanya-kanyang wika sa buong mundo...sa Ingles, Espanol, Hapones, maging Tagalog at Cebuano (to name a few). Ang kundisyon lang ay dapat nakabatay ito sa orihinal na teksto ng misa sa Latin---specifically, the 1969 Mass.
Dahil mabilis na in-adopt ng iba-ibang bansa ang pagmimisa sa kanya-kanyang wika, nabawasan ang paggamit ng Latin, at gayundin ng Tridentine Mass. Sa mahabang panahon---at least, in this generation---nagkaroon ng impression na hindi na ginagamit ang Latin, at hindi na rin nauso ang Tridentine Mass.
Obviously, may mga taong napamahal sa Tridentine Mass at hindi nakuntento na napalitan ang kanilang minamahal na bersyon ng misa. Yung iba sa kanila ay itinuring pang "tiwalag" sa simbahan (a very unfortunate incident, I think, given yung intentions nung mga taong involved). Sa matagal na panahon, nag-lobby sila sa Vatican upang muling maibalik ang Tridentine Mass---or at least, pahintulutang muli ang pagmimisa gamit ang bersyong ito. Para maliwanagan ang lahat ng mga tao, noong 2005 (ata?
) ay inilabas ni Pope Benedict XVI ang kasulatan na Summorum Pontificum upang linawin ang ilang mga bagay ukol sa isyung ito, namely:* hindi naman talaga in-"abolish" ng Vatican II ang Tridentine Mass;
* because of this, pupwedeng magmisa ang mga tao gamit ang Tridentine Mass given certain conditions outlined in Summorum. Among others: kelangang nasa Latin pa rin ang Tridentine Mass (na siya naman ding gusto ng mga proponents nito
);* in fact, ine-encourage ang mga tao na subukang magmisa sa Tridentine Mass. Note: the word is "encouraged". Hindi ibig sabihin nito ay "mandatory" ito sa lahat ng mga simbahan sa buong mundo;
* Hindi din naman ibig sabihin nito ay ina-"abolish" naman ang 1969 Mass. Sa katunayan, sa mata ng Vatican, pareho silang valid forms of the same Mass...they are the same Mass, with two different "uses".
So in short...pinapayagan ang pagmimisa sa Latin, pero hindi ito nire-require
Pero kung gusto naman ninyong subukan na makapagmisa kayo in Latin, bakit hindi?
Regarding the application of this directive in the Philippines...sobrang masalimuot ang interpretation ng Archdiocese of Manila tungkol dito, I think. Mismong mga taga-Vatican ay hindi nasiyahan sa ikinilos ng Manila Cathedral sa pagmimisa sa Tridentine Mass. I'll let you search my previous posts for the complete answer, para hindi humaba ng sobra-sobra ang post na ito
That's just the first part of the story. Please read on for the second part....
Quote:
| since ang translation sa english, tagalog and other languages sa misa ay puro mali. Dapat kung ano daw yung nakalagay sa latin guide yun din dapat ang tukmang translation sa salita natin |
Eto naman yung story ng Vox Clara Committee....
What happened kasi was this:
1. The text of the 1969 Mass came out.
2. The English translation was done soon after.
3. The Tagalog translation was derived from the English translation, and not the original Latin translation. Ito yung tinutukoy mong "Dapat kung ano daw yung nakalagay sa latin guide yun din dapat ang tukmang translation sa salita natin"...but let me correct that. The Latin text of the Mass is not a guide; the Latin text of the mass is the original and definitive text of the mass. Hindi siya "guide" lang, it's the real thing.
So what happened was this:
4. In the early 2000s, there were calls---and initiatives---to revisit the many glaring mistranslations that occurred in the English translation. The result was the Vox Clara committee which is a joint undertaking of the Vatican and the ICEL (International Commission on the English Language).
5. Some Bishops, priests, theologians and linguistic experts worked, debated, argued and fought over how the Mass should really be translated in English. They kept themselves busy for many years.
6. In 2009, they made an announcement: the new translation is ready.
7. The new translation is released. English-speaking nations quickly studied the new retranslation.
8. The USCCB (the equivalent of the CBCP for the US of A) scheduled Advent 2011 as the date when the new translation will be mandatory for all parishes in the entire United States of America.
BUT...the Tagalog translation---which came from the not-so-good English translation---remained the same. Kasi wala ding ganung initiative sa Tagalog gaya ng ginawa sa English translation. Yes, you read it right...namana---hanggang ngayon---ng Tagalog translation ng misa ang mga pagkukulang o inaccuracies ng orihinal na English translation ng 1969 mass kasi yung English translation ang ginamit na batayan sa pagsasa-Tagalog ng misa imbes na yung Latin. (For example: Dominus vobiscum--et cum spiritum tuum was originally translated in English as "The Lord be with you---and also with you", which was translated back in Tagalog as "Sumainyo ang Panginoon--at sumainyo rin". But the more accurate translation in English of the original Latin text is "The Lord be with you---and with your spirit". The new English translation uses "And with your spirit".)
So I heard, the other Philippine regional language translations such as the Cebuano mass didn't have this issue. (Can some onliners from the non-Tagalog speaking locations confirm this? )
Anyway, regarding the English translation...in the US, in Canada and in a good number of other countries where the mass is said in English, the new English retranslation will take effect by Advent of 2011. Sa ngayon, inaaral na nila ito in the past few months...it's expected that by Advent of this year, they will using it on a regular basis. Pati mga music settings ng mass songs, ni-revise din nila to accommodate the retranslation, so hindi isyu sa kanila ang bagong retranslation
In the Philippines, sa Advent 2012 pa magte-take effect ito...at least, if the CBCP will have its way. As to why the CBCP wants to delay the implementation of the new translation is left to anyone's imagination In reality, pupwedeng mauna ang ibang diocese or archdiocese kung iyon ang maibigan ng kanilang obispo o arsobispo, and walang magagawa ang CBCP doon.
For example: Take note that in the Archdiocese of Lingayen-Dagupan (the entire province of Pangasinan, that is), ginagamit na nila ang new English translation, according to the orders of Archbishop Soc Villegas. Nakasimba na ako doon sa Pangasinan on a few occasions and I can confirm that the Pangasinenses already know the new translation by heart, maski nakapatay ang projector sa mga simbahan Mabilis pa nga sila kasi they had just one month, if I remember correctly, to instruct people on how to respond using the new translation.
What happened kasi was this:
1. The text of the 1969 Mass came out.
2. The English translation was done soon after.
3. The Tagalog translation was derived from the English translation, and not the original Latin translation. Ito yung tinutukoy mong "Dapat kung ano daw yung nakalagay sa latin guide yun din dapat ang tukmang translation sa salita natin"...but let me correct that. The Latin text of the Mass is not a guide; the Latin text of the mass is the original and definitive text of the mass. Hindi siya "guide" lang, it's the real thing.
So what happened was this:
4. In the early 2000s, there were calls---and initiatives---to revisit the many glaring mistranslations that occurred in the English translation. The result was the Vox Clara committee which is a joint undertaking of the Vatican and the ICEL (International Commission on the English Language).
5. Some Bishops, priests, theologians and linguistic experts worked, debated, argued and fought over how the Mass should really be translated in English. They kept themselves busy for many years.
6. In 2009, they made an announcement: the new translation is ready.
7. The new translation is released. English-speaking nations quickly studied the new retranslation.
8. The USCCB (the equivalent of the CBCP for the US of A) scheduled Advent 2011 as the date when the new translation will be mandatory for all parishes in the entire United States of America.
BUT...the Tagalog translation---which came from the not-so-good English translation---remained the same. Kasi wala ding ganung initiative sa Tagalog gaya ng ginawa sa English translation. Yes, you read it right...namana---hanggang ngayon---ng Tagalog translation ng misa ang mga pagkukulang o inaccuracies ng orihinal na English translation ng 1969 mass kasi yung English translation ang ginamit na batayan sa pagsasa-Tagalog ng misa imbes na yung Latin. (For example: Dominus vobiscum--et cum spiritum tuum was originally translated in English as "The Lord be with you---and also with you", which was translated back in Tagalog as "Sumainyo ang Panginoon--at sumainyo rin". But the more accurate translation in English of the original Latin text is "The Lord be with you---and with your spirit". The new English translation uses "And with your spirit".)
So I heard, the other Philippine regional language translations such as the Cebuano mass didn't have this issue. (Can some onliners from the non-Tagalog speaking locations confirm this?
)Anyway, regarding the English translation...in the US, in Canada and in a good number of other countries where the mass is said in English, the new English retranslation will take effect by Advent of 2011. Sa ngayon, inaaral na nila ito in the past few months...it's expected that by Advent of this year, they will using it on a regular basis. Pati mga music settings ng mass songs, ni-revise din nila to accommodate the retranslation, so hindi isyu sa kanila ang bagong retranslation
In the Philippines, sa Advent 2012 pa magte-take effect ito...at least, if the CBCP will have its way. As to why the CBCP wants to delay the implementation of the new translation is left to anyone's imagination
In reality, pupwedeng mauna ang ibang diocese or archdiocese kung iyon ang maibigan ng kanilang obispo o arsobispo, and walang magagawa ang CBCP doon.For example: Take note that in the Archdiocese of Lingayen-Dagupan (the entire province of Pangasinan, that is), ginagamit na nila ang new English translation, according to the orders of Archbishop Soc Villegas. Nakasimba na ako doon sa Pangasinan on a few occasions and I can confirm that the Pangasinenses already know the new translation by heart, maski nakapatay ang projector sa mga simbahan
Mabilis pa nga sila kasi they had just one month, if I remember correctly, to instruct people on how to respond using the new translation. Quote:
| I dont know if this is final na |
For both Summorum and regarding the use of the new English translation...yes, they are final
Uulitin ko lang. The new directives didn't say na "required" nang magmisa sa Latin. Because kung gusto ninyong i-try na magmisa sa Latin text ng 1969 mass, you can do that naman.
Uulitin ko lang. The new directives didn't say na "required" nang magmisa sa Latin. Because kung gusto ninyong i-try na magmisa sa Latin text ng 1969 mass, you can do that naman.
Quote:
| .. Pero para sa akin mahihirapan tayong maninimba nito... lalo na sa mga tugon natin sa misa... sa part ng choir din naman siguro latin songs na rin kakantahin natin.... |
Kung nagawa ng Pangasinan with just one month of preparation, I don't see why this is not possible for the rest of us. Pero at least in the US, they gave everyone one year to prepare. Pinamudmod nila lahat ng mga copies ng new translation over the Internet (just visit the USCCB website for the complete text), and maski yung mga pyesa ng people's responses sa new music settings pinamimigay din ng libre sa websites ng mga music publishers.
At least, we still have until Advent of 2012 to prepare. Wala tayong dapat ikatakot
At least, we still have until Advent of 2012 to prepare. Wala tayong dapat ikatakot
Quote:
| If ever matuloy ito payag ba kayo? O may magagawa ba tayo? |
Roma locuta, causa finita. When Rome speaks, it's final.
So kailangan nating tumalima, the obedient Catholics that we all are. (We all are, right? Right, Fr. Anscar Chupongco and Fr. Genaro Diwa? )
So kailangan nating tumalima, the obedient Catholics that we all are. (We all are, right?
Right, Fr. Anscar Chupongco and Fr. Genaro Diwa? )Quote:
| ang ipinag-alala ko baka wala nang sisimba dahil hindi nila maunawaan ang misa |
Well...kung magmimisa siguro sa Latin, that is always a valid concern. But keep in mind that the Vatican didn't issue any directive saying that we are no longer allowed to say mass in our own language. The Vatican still allows us to have our masses in Tagalog, Cebuano, Bicolano, Pangasinan, etc.
As for the English retranslation of the Mass...like what I've mentioned, we still have a lot of time in our hands (unless you're from or in Pangasinan, kasi mandatory na yung new English retranslation for them). And believe me, the number of responses with new translation aren't that many, makakabisa n'yo lahat yun in just one day (mas mahirap pa nga yung sa mga pari kasi nasa kanila yung may pinakamaraming revisions). I believe we who serve in our parishes have all the means and the time to help the community learn and adapt to the new translations. Nasa atin 'yun kung papaano natin matutulungan ang sambayanan na makatugon at makapag-participate gamit ang new English translation. (We can do it, believe me )
But of course, kung wala naman kayong English mass sa parokya ninyo, or kung hindi naman English yung misa na pinagse-serve-an ninyo...there is nothing to worry. Wala kayong dapat ikatakot o ipangamba. Status quo pa rin ang Tagalog, Cebuano and the other local languages...for now hehehe
* * * * *
And just in case you missed these links from the old posts...
The CBCP directive on the new English Translation (MUST READ!!!)
http://rcam.org/liturgical_news/2011...an_missal.html
Utang na loob...print this, photocopy this, give copies of this to every person in your parish who isn't aware that the English translation of the mass has been revised. This CBCP directive is the ultimate word about the topic, and the message is loud and clear: wala na talagang atrasan ito
Archbishop Soc's directive on the mandatory use of the new translations in the Archdiocese of Lingayen-Dagupan (all of Pangasinan)
http://rcald.org/?p=321
Complete text of the new retranslation (from USCCB) (MUST-DOWNLOAD!!!)
http://old.usccb.org/romanmissal/order-of-mass.pdf
...with annotations (i.e. commentaries)
http://old.usccb.org/romanmissal/annotated-mass.pdf
The USCCB's FAQ on the new translation (this is a MUST-READ!!!)
http://old.usccb.org/romanmissal/faqs2.shtml
Translation notes:
http://old.usccb.org/romanmissal/tra...ng_notes.shtml
Ten Things You Need to Know (about the new translation)
http://usccbmedia.blogspot.com/2011/...-counting.html
As for the English retranslation of the Mass...like what I've mentioned, we still have a lot of time in our hands (unless you're from or in Pangasinan, kasi mandatory na yung new English retranslation for them). And believe me, the number of responses with new translation aren't that many, makakabisa n'yo lahat yun in just one day (mas mahirap pa nga yung sa mga pari kasi nasa kanila yung may pinakamaraming revisions). I believe we who serve in our parishes have all the means and the time to help the community learn and adapt to the new translations. Nasa atin 'yun kung papaano natin matutulungan ang sambayanan na makatugon at makapag-participate gamit ang new English translation. (We can do it, believe me
)But of course, kung wala naman kayong English mass sa parokya ninyo, or kung hindi naman English yung misa na pinagse-serve-an ninyo...there is nothing to worry. Wala kayong dapat ikatakot o ipangamba. Status quo pa rin ang Tagalog, Cebuano and the other local languages...for now
hehehe* * * * *
And just in case you missed these links from the old posts...
The CBCP directive on the new English Translation (MUST READ!!!)
http://rcam.org/liturgical_news/2011...an_missal.html
Utang na loob...print this, photocopy this, give copies of this to every person in your parish who isn't aware that the English translation of the mass has been revised. This CBCP directive is the ultimate word about the topic, and the message is loud and clear: wala na talagang atrasan ito
Archbishop Soc's directive on the mandatory use of the new translations in the Archdiocese of Lingayen-Dagupan (all of Pangasinan)
http://rcald.org/?p=321
Complete text of the new retranslation (from USCCB) (MUST-DOWNLOAD!!!)
http://old.usccb.org/romanmissal/order-of-mass.pdf
...with annotations (i.e. commentaries)
http://old.usccb.org/romanmissal/annotated-mass.pdf
The USCCB's FAQ on the new translation (this is a MUST-READ!!!)
http://old.usccb.org/romanmissal/faqs2.shtml
Translation notes:
http://old.usccb.org/romanmissal/tra...ng_notes.shtml
Ten Things You Need to Know (about the new translation)
http://usccbmedia.blogspot.com/2011/...-counting.html
